He says: "Even reckoned as a lord and captain Saruman has grown very strong Saruman also had a mind to capture the Ring for himself [Sauron] now has Isengard to fear as well as Minas Tirith" The word "fear" seems important here. What about orcs, or trolls wielding the rings taken from the dwarves? How might the Ring have helped Saruman in his empire-building? As such, Saruman wouldn't have been able to use the Ring against Sauron, per se. They could not fight him, since it was under Saurons power they were made, but they did distract him - Sauron was concentrating his sight and attantion upon Rivendell and Lothlorien. Even if Saruman won this hypothetical battle, it would be ultimately irrelevant. Saruman had decided to abandon his mission as an Istari and join Sauron in subjugating Middle-earth. Privacy Policy. The key thing to note is that Sauron, by the time of the War of the Ring, lacked the ability to take a. I would not be too sure that Sauron would be the victor, as Saruman spent long years in study of ring-lore. I say this because Saruman would never have destroyed the ring and so the ring would have eventually consumed him since Sauron was its true master. Although this is never explicitly stated, Galadriel alluded to the Fact that Gandalf, . There would have been no need to send an army; this would have been a one-on-one contest in Orthanc. He would simply wait and let the Ring do what it was made to do. Is he stronger than the will of the ring? Narsil was made by the dwarves not elves. But he didn't because Eomer disobeyed his king and destroyed an orc band that had the most crucial thing needed by both Saruman and Sauron - information. In this scenario, Sauron likely would have recovered his Ring and covered all the lands in a second darkness. Who is more popular Leonardo DiCaprio or Tom Cruise? If any artists would like us to remove their artwork, or add anything additional to credit you, please contact us and we will sort it straight away! But why do I think the Stranger is Saruman? Keep in mind the Ring doesn't only have Sauron's power in it. Like the Valar He was created in the Beginning. This increased his corruption, though he never lost the possibility of becoming independent with the One Ring. Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. cbr.com - Blake Hawkins 14h. He did not fear Sauron, but rather was forbidden to contest with him directly. First off, it gives us an idea of how dangerous the Ring is- if the head of the Istari and White Council can . If you know how to use it, its an *extremely* powerful magical artifact. He writes about everything from NCIS to Stranger Things to The Walking Dead and everything in between. I suspect that most of us think Saruman's treachery is so fundamental to Lord of the Rings, that it is almost impossible to imagine the epic without it. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. He starts on a similar path as Gandalf, but his choices and hunger for power lead him to evil. Frodo would have continued into Mordor and odds are he would have been discovered there. "Greetings, Naruto Wraithslayer, wielder of the Faerdagnir. Sauron was the Dark Lord in The Lord of the Rings saga, written by J.R.R. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron? Thus, while Gandalf taking the One Ring would have expediated the destruction of Sauron, it also would have hasted the subjugation of Middle-earth. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. This is what Sauron feared that his enemies would do, if they got the Ring; and that's the only reason he feared them. Read more on cbr.com. This one, too, was controlled by Sauron. They got the identity wrong, but the Stranger felt the direction about Rhn to be accurate. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. I know Letter 246 says Sauron himself did not fear the Ring, would not have hesitated to confront a Ring-wielding Frodo, and could easily have forced Frodo to hand the Ring over. We see this happening when Frodo claims the Ring at the Crack of Doom, and there's no reason to think it would be different for Saruman. When it comes to the Stranger, played by Daniel Weyman, we learned he is one of the Istari, but we did not learn his actual name. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. Some interesting conjecture, but you're forgetting that if anyone replaced Sauron as the "master" of the One Ruling Ring, they would sever Sauron's tie to the ring and essentially reduce him to an ineffectual spirit who could no longer interact with the physical world. Follow her on Twitter and Instagram. He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. There would have been one less Peter Jackson movie. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Why does Gandalf seek counsel from Saruman about the One Ring after leaving Frodo in the Shire? Gandalf feared the power the ring would give him. It would be difficult for Sauron. In The Lord of the Rings, the palantri corrupt nearly all who use them. She seems to have seriously pondered what she might do if she got hold of the Ring, and she was only an Elf, not a Maiar like Saruman. Hes of the same order of beings as Sauron, so he certainly has enough power to effectively use the ring. 2 What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? Covering the hottest movie and TV topics that fans want. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that . Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. It seems it was a mistake for the Ring to leave Isildur. House of Dragons vs. He caught up with the orcs and destroyed them in the early hours of the 29th. Saruman used the seeing stones(palintir) to keep up with Sauron, as did Boromirs Father (name slips me now), Sarumaon would be no more than a snivinling fool of Sauron. Both the direct and symbolic aspects could have helped Saruman expand his empire by winning adherents and frightening potential opponents. Does this sword yield more power than the ring? One other Seeing Stone has been accounted for: the Stone of Minas Anor. They are not beasts. What happens next? Balrogs are intelligent sentient beings. That makes Gandalf more or less like we know him from The Lord of the Rings, thousands of years in the future. It might be that if Saruman had the Ring he would, in a Maiar way, then become Sauron in the same way. But there isn't a blind following of obedience in Tolkien at least not with wise and just characters depending on the circumstances. Which probably wouldn't have happened. And so that's what Gandalf was pretending to do, while they were actually taking the Ring to Mt. CK Goksoy - https://www.artstation.com/ckgoksoyIvan Cavini - https://www.ivancavini.comTed Nasmith - https://www.tednasmith.comPeter Xavier Price https://www.deviantart.com/peetAdam Middleton - https://www.artstation.com/adammiddMagali Villeneuve - http://www.magali-villeneuve.comThumbnail Art: \"Saruman\" - (Artist Unknown)\"Black Orcs, Uruk Hai\" - Skinny22\"The Ring\" - Helm1892Art in order of First appearance:Saruman - (Artist Unknown)Saruman with the Palantir kuliszuThe One Ring - benjamin-lindquistMiddle Earth KlaradoxWay to Mordor IribelIsengard Uruk - Tey BartolomeThe Riders of Rohan TurnerMohanSaruman OtisFramptonSaruman the White DanielGovarSauron The Lord of the Rings - William FaucherSaruman fanart - Samthalsabey-ArtSauron - AnotherStranger-MeSaruman the White - YoungPhoenix3191Saruman VihrushkaGandalf the White - Suzanne-Helmigh Saruman AlMaNeGrAFortress of Isengard monpuasajrBlack Orcs, Uruk Hai - Skinny22Helms Deep - Paul LasaineUruk-hai AlexBocaOne Ring to Rule Them All (LOTR) AnatoFinnstarkThe White Rider ralphdamianiEdoras AllrichArtSaruman - Cocoz42The One Ring - LOTR - Jimmy-AppeltSaruman the White adenryTheoden, King of Rohan ArtisAllanRohan peetAmon Din aegeriSaruman JleonardKSaruman jalvMinas Tirith SamscrapbookGandalf the White FacuamThe last march of the Ents GrazianoRoccataniThe Istari - Ivan Cavini(Gwaihir saves Gandalf - Miruna-Lavinia)(Ents TolyanMy)Treason of Isengard lostknightkgSaruman gaberoseartSaruman - KelseyMH33Merry and Pippin icanfeeltheearthturnSaruman of Many Colours TolmanCottonSaruman and the Palantir malibunnySaruman the White pfodraThe Five Istari (Wizards) - (Arist Unknown)Saruman - aquiles-soirBattle of Dale - (Artist Unknown)Sauron NynseiSaruman the White MattDeMinoOrc Warrior - (Artist Unknown)Nazgul StyooNazgul darekzabrockiSauron Jerry VandersteltUruk-Hai JHKrisSauron War of the Last Alliance MattDeMinoSaruman - malara-artWitch-king of Angmar - Vulpes-IbucultaSaruman LychnobiaSaruman - Concept-Art-HouseSauron-As He Sat The One Ring Upon His Finger IngvildSchageArt----------All content falls under fair use: any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and transformative purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. All credit must go to the talented artists. This mod, although it doesn't add a new staff to the game, creates a unique design for all of the Skyrim staves. Saruman wants to be Saurons only servant. A capable bearer would have all that power, plus whatever native power he or she had to begin with. Imagine that, after breaking of Fellowship, Saruman`s Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and bring him, with the ring, to Isengard. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Yet, it's also possible that Sauron would have triumphed and regained the Ring for himself. As was made quite clear at the Council of Elrond, as long as the Ring existed Sauron could not fully be destroyed. Since the One Ring is a part of Sauron it could only ever reach its full power under Sauron's control. What money is available for senior citizens? So if Saruman mastered the Ring, he would become the next Dark Lord of Middle-earth. Basically it took a super-human with a super-sword to chop the ring off of Sauron's hand and he only did that with a lucky hit. And if the hearts of men were not so easily tainted, the Ringwraiths might never have been brought into being. I think the real point has been missed. The White Wizard put Isengard at Sauron's disposal until his armies were defeated at Helms Deep and his staff was broken by the resurrected Gandalf. Either way, Saruman through torture or his Voice would have quickly learned everything about the Quest of the Ring. Heck, the great among the Elves, or even Aragorn, were considered very credible threats by Sauron. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? He said yes!" The pair had met through mutual friends years ago, but had an immediate spark when they reconnected last year. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. For more information, please see our He wanted the One Ring. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. He and his servants already knew of his involvement in the attack on the Fellowship and the capture of the hobbits. Of course, Saruman was shocked to hear about the One Ring but wasn't going to help Gandalf conceal it because he had already chosen a new course of action. The question of what Saruman would have done therefore becomes moot since it seems inevitable that Sauron would have been the stronger. Saruman had full control of his army, which is why the Hobbits were being brought to him (because they maybe had the ring), instead of immediately to Sauron (who at the time of their capture, they were much closer to). Would Sauron be able to open two fronts, battling against Isengard and Gondor? In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Why didn't they bring the Ring to Valinor? 1 What would have happened if Saruman got the ring? JavaScript is disabled. Sauron may not learn the true goal of the Ringbearer but he would know that the ringbearer was most likely near or nearing his borders. Much of Sarumans history in the Second Age is mysterious. By the end of Return of the King, Saruman has lost his powers and has resorted to becoming a lowly criminal. The Lord Of The Rings. But eventually the Ring would subvert their efforts and bring about evil. Gandalf wasn't even sure if he would be able to break his staff in The Return of the King, and that was a very weakened version of Saruman. Please don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date with all future content! Saruman summon the storm on Caradhras in the PJverse in The Fellowship of the Ring. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, Saruman has become jealous of Sauron's power (and Gandalf's too). Saruman had an opportunity to take a Ring of Power, but didn't. Was the ring more risk than it was worth? He's the anti-hero in his own story who spends time with the Blue Wizards in the East, heads up the White Council, and eventually . Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. Either way Sauron would've just destroyed him at some point if he got the ring back; Saruman getting the Ring is another . Tolkiens trilogy its even plastered on the cover of several editions of the books. New Movie News, Movie Trailers & upcoming Movie Reviews, Saruman Gaining the One Ring Would Have Doomed Middle-earth Even Faster, Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil, How Morgoth Created Glaurung and The Lord of the Rings' Dragons, REVIEW: Frank Miller Presents Ancient Enemies: The Djinni #1 Crafts a Compelling Origin Story, REVIEW: DC's Shazam! Is Bosnia a developing or developed country? Thank you! Saruman is ruined when the Riders of Rohan defeat his army and Merry and Pippin prompt the Ents to destroy Isengard. The Three were used against Sauron, but indirectly. Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. Yet, he had . It was his own and under his will. Although he never appears directly in the books and is only shown in the movies in a flashback to the War of the Last Alliance, his corruptive influence is felt nearly everywhere in Middle-Earth. By this Tolkien shows that disobedience for good reasons has merit. In the case of vague powers the One Ring would enhance one's powers based on one's strengths. Was the "Eye of Sauron" Sauron's actual physical form? Saruman remained in the East for hundreds of years, only returning to the West when Saurons power started to grow. When Sauron thought Aragorn had the Ring, he reacted with a swift military offensive. You are using an out of date browser. This is the real reason the eagles question will never die: Its too appetizing for The Lord of the Rings fans. Without Rohan and Gondor, humans would be . Either way, the good guys loose big. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? Keep Your Powder Dry: Firearms for 5E Fantasy CampaignsNearly 40 firearms with customization options for 5E games, plus magic items, feats for gunslingers, and the alchemist character class! We'll pick u. In those, Saruman appears to harness the weather to command the snowstorm on the pass of Caradhras that dramatically halts the progress of the Fellowship. Gandalf and Galadriel both seem to think that they could take the One, and replace Sauron - if they can so could Saruman. All betting content is intended for an . He eventually became the leader of the Istari because of all of them, he had most studied the devices of Sauron of old. In other words, he learned about dark magic and Ringlore and knew the enemy the best of the Istari. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". The Great Eye also features heavily in Peter Jacksons blockbuster big-screen adaptations, an ever-watchful flaming orb atop a massive stone obelisk. Exactly. When Gandalf meets Saruman in Orthanc, he notices that Saruman is wearing a ring. The orcs likely would have gotten to Isengard the next day or so or met Saruman on the way as he or his image was seen by Aragorn and Company on the evening of the 30th. He regained his identity and seemingly his memories, but the Stranger did not say, Hi, Nori, I have a name and its Gandalf. His friendship with the adventurous Harfoot, his mannerisms, and some of his lines ring true for Gandalf the Grey. Probably, upon creation, Saruman was weaker than Gandalf and Sauron, and he spent his entire existence trying to increase his power, leading to his jealousy of Gandalf and eventual betrayal. Even still, Frodo set the benchmark for hope and volunteered to take the One Ring to Mordor, where he destroyed it and saved the world from disaster. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. I don't think it would have made Saruman invincible, and, after all, he still would still have had to contend for instance with Treebeard and the Ents, as well as with Sauron. But what if the Stranger is a different wizard we all know from The Lord of the Rings? Saruman Secretly Forged His Own Ring of Power in The Lord of the Rings. My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. After his friendship with Nori, that would hurt. Although Saruman had selfish motives, he didn't expect to fall so deep . First its a lucky hit, now its a super-human with a magical super-sword? That is, however, a legitimate concern when entering any fight: any weaponry you wield may be captured and used against you. My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. How did Saruman become corrupted? That means Frodo had to destroy the Ring to destroy Sauron for good. And in The Rings of Power, when the . He had already copied Sauron in every other aspect. What exactly happened to Sauron when the Ring was destroyed? There's the slight possibility that Saruman would have given the One Ring to Sauron and served as lieutenant to the most powerful being in Middle-earth. Saruman comes to look down on hobbits. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? I got down on bended knee at the top of the mountain and proposed. After all, they would both want the other one's full and utter . When the good wizard Saruman uses one to spy on the peoples of Middle-earth, he is drawn in by its power and ensnared by . Sauron would then have suspended his campaign against Minas Tirith, and instead sent his armies north-west, through Rohan towards Isengard. Saruman is one of few "grey" characters in the books, meaning he's neither gone fully evil or good. For example, Beregond is reprimanded for leaving his post but is assigned to a position of honor by Aragorn in recognition of why he disobeyed. The Ring also has his - what does it say? He also used his Palantir to spy on Sauron. Sorry, memory fails me ATM. He sees the Dark Lord as a rival and also an aspiration. The eagles cant carry the Fellowship to Mordor because Gandalf cant simply summon a squadron of birds to divebomb Mount Doom. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. While Frodo and his companions know that Sauron is an embodiment of . Saruman has his own glorious rise to power before falling to ruin. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. In the appendices it mentions the three assaults on Lorien, during the final days of the struggle. What are the benefits of digital signatures? What did Tolkien originally write? His own greed and lust for power turned him to darkness on his own, and Sauron through the Palantir had already turned Saruman into his tool - though Saruman was of no use to Sauron at all once defeated. Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. He wanted the One Ring. This perfectly explained how the Ring could have gotten from Sauron to Isildur to Gollum to . Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. The other Rings of power could be used by anyone else varying only by the individual. Could he really do anything with it? Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0, TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History, Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News. We learn that Denethor, steward of Gondor, had used the Palantir to divine knowledge of the Enemys movements only just before the steward burns himself alive. #2. The Rise Of LOTR's Witch-king Of Angmar. I would have thought that they would have been used against Sauron if at all possible while he didnt have the one. But what was the purpose of the three? What about Galadrial? The Mystics, believing the Stranger is Sauron, tell him he must go to Rhn to fully explore his powers. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings, but it has to be said that there were a few different shapes of both characters. After that there is no other mention of Aragorn and the Ring together. What happens next would depend on Sauron himself; whether he would seek to retake the Ring immediately; whether he would visit Saruman himself or send a lesser servant. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? Loyalty is an important theme in Tolkien's world and obedience to authority is paramount in a medieval setting as in Middle-Earth. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for LEGO The Lord of the Rings Tower of Orthanc (10237) at the best online prices at eBay! Saruman is my favorite figure of all time . In fact, as recent graduate of Greensboro College's honors program, Blake wrote his thesis on Star Wars and its religious connections. The first and most obvious reason Galadriel gets to hang on to her Ring - Nenya, the Ring of Water - from beginning (i.e. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner.In the event I use art of yours or you have any questions, please contact me and we'll get it sorted straight away! I'm no Tolkien expert but I assume there would have been a great war between Isengard and Mordor, which would have affected all parts of Middle Earth. Still, this is a point to consider. He would have also learned where the Fellowship was broken and knowing the Ringbearer's true purpose would assume his destination would be the Black Gate which indeed it was until Gollum convinced Frodo otherwise. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. On the other hand, Sauron was not invincible either. What TV series related to the "Matter of Middle-earth" would you prefer to see? By this Tolkien shows that disobedience for good reasons has merit. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Posted September 4, 2007. mysticalblues said: My roommate met someone last week that had a ring that she got in St. Thomas. How to show that an expression of a finite type must be one of the finitely many possible values? Is Taco Bell healthier than other fast food? We know of his ultimate betrayal against Middle-earth, maybe especially against his fellow Wizards and the Valar. In Tolkiens work, Saruman went to Rhn, shortly after he arrived in Middle-earth, in factjust like the Stranger. No one could even comprehend the length of His existence. As with Gandalf or Galadriel, the Ring would comply with the good intent of their first efforts. Even if Theoden triumphed at Helm's Deep in this scenario, Saruman would be relatively safe in Isengard and Aragorn would not be able to look into the Palantir which is what led Sauron to focus his attention in Aragorn's direction and not around his own borders. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that effects all events afterwards! In the book it is sort of implied that certain beings with sufficient power (e.g. Gandalf found out that Saruman had abandoned his mission when the White Wizard asked him to join forces with Sauron. Here's a new theory concerning Saruman and Grima. He aided Frodo but he did not save him or the Quest from certain ruin as Eomer did by attacking the orc band. Is the man a thousand times stronger than a normal man? The Lord of the Rings. That success would be the usual bitter victory, though, because first the new wielder of the ring would need to build his own power, and learn the mastery of the ring. A normal man with a normal sword would probably have failed miserably even if he had got in the lucky hit. All the latest gaming news, game reviews and trailers. Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! And hes got a considerable stronghold and force of arms with which to hold off Saurons forces until he can learn to use it. The Lord of the Rings doesnt have plot holes. Also there is the forest of Fangorn between them I think. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Did Peter Jackson take inspiration for Gollum from "Dracula 1931" movie. However, Saruman had planned his rise to power much earlier than that. Any idea what set any of these are from? If he succeeded in doing that, Sauron would have been defeated because it was his saving anchor. To a lesser degree Faramir's disobedience also saved the Quest. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf the Grey, but . The three created majesty of a different sort, and magnified the loyalty of those who already were loyal, rather than coercing by fear. They'd be capable of wielding it and would be a threat to Sauron, though Sauron would probably win in the end as The Ring was only . He only knew an orc band was loose and could cause problems and he feared an alliance between Saruman and Sauron which would be bad for Rohan so off he went. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. See Palantr Wikipedia . What would have happened to Saruman if Sauron acquired the One Ring? The One Ring has a number of powers and depending on what information (particularly regarding the Middle Earth RPG) you will get very vague to very specific capabilties for the One Ring. In fact, he had started searching for the One Ring (and found Isildur's remains) well before the events of The Hobbit. If Saruman destroyed Sauron If he won, he would become a great L. It may not display this or other websites correctly. He believed that Sauron would never return, so he had his own set of schemes. Whether he judged correctly is another matter, but I would expect it to be a contest. (OK, just a Numenorean with the largest army and navy in all of history.) However, The Lord of the Rings TV series still left plenty of questions for future seasons.